Debra Kilsheimer: Beyond Billable Hours

 

 

Transcript
(00:05) Canopy Host
Welcome to another episode of Canopy Practice Success. I’m your host, Canopy Host, and I’m here with the lovely Deborah. Deborah, will you give us a quick introduction of yourself?

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(00:16) Debra
I’m Deborah Kilsheimer. I’m an accountant, CPA, bookkeeper, and business owner. I’m also the host of a podcast and YouTube channel called Bookkeepers on Fire with my co-host Donna Reed—please like, subscribe, and share.

We’ve been doing that for a little over a year, and it’s been a lot of fun. I also run my own accounting practice with my husband, Harold. I live in Florida, have two grown kids, and just became a grandmother—my grandchild is five months old now.

And honestly, I just look at pictures of this kid all day… and I don’t even like children.

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(00:50) Canopy Host
Congratulations!

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(00:50) Debra
I just keep updating my phone wallpaper with new pictures. I don’t scroll—I just tap through photos all day.

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(01:01) Canopy Host
And before you know it, 30 minutes has gone by.

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(01:04) Debra
Exactly. I don’t scroll—I tap.

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(01:05) Canopy Host
Not billable time, right?

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(01:09) Debra
Nope. I’ve never billed by the hour. Not once.

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(01:12) Canopy Host
That deserves applause. Why?

There’s been so much discussion around pricing in accounting. You’ve been ahead of that for a long time. Why don’t you bill by the hour?

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(01:50) Debra
Let me go way back.

I grew up in a house where everything revolved around time. My dad collected clocks—literally filled the house with them. Bells would ring for dinner, bedtime—everything.

So time was always front and center in my life.

Then I started working in a CPA firm, and they told us to track time every six minutes. I thought, this is ridiculous.

If I take longer, the client pays more—but I don’t want to take longer. I want to go home.

And then I realized something:
If a client got me, they paid less. If they got someone slower, they paid more.

That made no sense.

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(03:04) Debra
Then you track your time all week, guess at it on Friday, get it written down by the firm, and then the client questions it—and it gets written down again.

Eventually, you land on the price the client wanted to pay in the first place.

So why not just start there?

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(04:16) Debra
I remember asking my boss, “Why don’t we charge a flat rate?”

He looked at me like I had two heads.

This was 1982.

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(04:30) Debra
I even worked at a firm that refused to use computers—because they thought they couldn’t charge as much if work got done faster.

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(04:39) Canopy Host
That is unbelievable.

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(04:40) Debra
I brought my own computer in.

Because clients aren’t paying for time—they’re paying for the brain between your ears.

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(05:07) Debra
If you go to a restaurant, they don’t charge you more if the meal takes 10 hours.

If you have surgery, you don’t want the doctor to take longer—you want it done right.

So why does accounting charge based on time?

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(05:47) Debra
As technology improved—QuickBooks, automation, AI—everything became faster.

So should we charge less because we’re more efficient?

No.

Clients pay for outcomes, not time.

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(07:34) Debra
To me, accounting should be about helping people use their money to live the life they want—not just producing tax returns.

But most firms just grind out compliance work.

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(07:57) Debra
Most clients don’t even read their financial statements.

It’s like a doctor handing you lab results—you don’t know what they mean.

Clients want insight, not reports.

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(09:11) Debra
Instead of motivating clients with fear, we should motivate with achievement.

Ask:

• Why did you start your business?
• What do you want your life to look like?

That’s where the real value is.

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(10:08) Debra
When I started working with my husband, I told him:

“I’ll only do this if we run the firm my way.”

We moved to:

• Monthly accounting
• Value-based pricing
• Technology-driven processes

And we’ve been doing it for over 20 years.

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(10:49) Debra
We’re not in the business of tax returns.

We’re in the business of changing lives.

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(11:50) Canopy Host
Why do you think firms stay stuck in old habits?

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(11:51) Debra
Because they’re not asking what clients actually want.

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(12:24) Debra
When I meet a new client, I don’t start with accounting.

I ask:

• Why did you call me?
• Tell me about your business
• Tell me about your life

I never shame them. It takes courage to ask for help.

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(13:05) Debra
People don’t want to do accounting.

Just like I don’t want to clean my house.

That’s why they hire us.

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(13:19) Debra
I don’t track time—even for my staff.

I track scope.

If services expand, pricing changes. Simple.

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(14:56) Debra
Clients want freedom.

If they love baking pies, my job is to handle the business so they can keep baking pies.

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(16:35) Debra
You’re not buying accounting—you’re buying a feeling:

• Confidence
• Clarity
• Peace of mind

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(17:36) Debra
Pricing is also about psychology.

Start high—anchor the value.

My highest client pays $6,000/month.

That reframes how people think about value.

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(18:41) Debra
I also tell clients:

“You will pay taxes—and that’s a good thing. It means you made money.”

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(19:56) Debra
My minimum is $850/month.

Because time is still finite.

If I take a $100 client, I lose the opportunity for a higher-value one.

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(20:30) Debra
Letting go of low-paying clients is scary.

But better clients will come.

Everyone needs an accountant.

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(21:38) Debra
I don’t raise prices arbitrarily.

I increase pricing when scope increases.

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(22:31) Debra
Sometimes clients resist change—like automation—because busy work makes them feel productive.

But that’s what holds them back.

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(23:19) Debra
I’m not just their accountant.

I’m their advisor.

I care about their lives.

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(24:40) Debra
Technology saves time—but it costs money.

And that’s okay.

Time is your most limited resource.

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(24:47) Debra
I love this work because it makes a difference.

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(25:29) Canopy Host
You don’t have to sacrifice your life to help your clients.

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(26:19) Debra
Exactly.

We constantly refine our processes to reduce frustration.

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(26:51) Debra
When we almost sold the firm, buyers didn’t care about the clients.

They cared about our processes.

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(27:44) Canopy Host
That must have felt validating.

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(27:44) Debra
It did—but I’m not special.

I just stayed curious and kept asking:
“Why do we do it this way?”

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(28:30) Debra
You can’t pour into others if you’re empty.

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(28:39) Debra
I only work with clients I want to work with.

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(29:14) Debra
Fewer clients. More value.

Better life.

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(30:18) Canopy Host
Deb, this has been incredible. Where can people find you?

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(30:21) Debra
Bookkeepers on Fire—YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts.

And I’m on LinkedIn.

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(30:46) Canopy Host
Thanks so much for being here.